Window Quarterly
Vol. 2, No. 2, 1991
Copyright 1991

[Permission is granted to use, print, reproduce this article 
provided the following acknowledgment is given:  From 
Window Quarterly 2, 2 (1991);  ACRAG c. 1991. 

***

CHALLENGES OF THE CHURCH IN ARMENIA

An interview with Father Abel Oghlookian
Director of the Center for the Propagation of Faith
Holy Etchmiadzin, Armenia

Conducted in New York by the Editors of Window

WINDOW: Would you give us a general overview about 
your work and the CPF.
FR. ABEL: The Center for Propagation of Faith (CPF) is a 
department of the Mother See, as established by His Holiness 
the Catholicos. As the other departments of the Mother See, 
such as the seminary, the CPF is a separate department.  It 
was founded because of the new spiritual awakening in 
Armenia.  It was formed so that the Gospel message and 
Christianity could be preached and spread among our people 
in Armenia. Its fundamental purpose is to evangelize.
	
While the government of Armenia has expressed an empathy 
to teach religion as a subject in schools, I should note that 
there are some technical difficulties.  First, we have a 
problem of text books, which are practically non-existent. To 
this end, we are working with the Ministry of Education, 
which is providing us with the necessary and relevant 
information, for instance about the laws regarding this 
project.  We are now preparing religious text books for 
grades 1 to 11.  However, we cannot prepare these books 
overnight or prepare and secure enough teachers.  For 
instance, in Armenia, in order to teach religion in all the 
public schools, we need 5000 teachers.  This is an 
impossibility.  At the very least, it will take 10 to 15 years to 
prepare this many teachers.
	
We have come to the conclusion, that at least for the time 
being, as an interim measure, we must incorporate the 
subject of religion with the subjects of Armenian history and 
to a certain extent with Armenian literature.  For instance, a 
few years ago, in Armenian history courses, they would not 
acknowledge the entry of Christianity into Armenia, or 
mention the corresponding facts of history of that process.  
Mesrob Mashdotz was responsible for the invention of the 
Armenian alphabet only.  They would not explain and/or 
emphasize the reasons.  He invented the alphabet so that the 
Gospel, the Holy Bible, could be preached in Armenian.  
Therefore, our plan is to incorporate the religious history 
with Armenian history.  As I said, we are doing this as a stop 
gap measure.

WINDOW: How are your efforts accepted by the general 
public, especially by the youth, who have been brought up 
for many years as atheists?

FR. ABEL: I would like to compare it with the West.  I 
cannot say anything about America, because I am unfamiliar 
with the circumstances here.  But in Europe, there is a 
preponderance of indifference toward religion, the 
supernatural and the mystical.  The same is true within 
Armenian circles,  which have long since been found 
indifferent and not interested. But in Armenia there is a great 
awakening.  Religion is now being tied with the national 
awakening, the national renaissance.  There is nothing which 
ties us to 2000 years of national history than our religion, our 
Christian faith.   Some even appeal to heathenism to find 
more ancient ties to our national history.  But we don't feel 
the heathens will find much ground, because the entire 
Armenian culture and Armenian self-consciousness has been 
kneaded by the light of Christianity.  Therefore, it is not 
possible to separate one from the other.
	
The youth show a great interest in this respect.  Their souls 
are thirsty for religious nourishment, the supernatural and the 
mystical.  The only issue here is that
the instructors must be well trained, present the material in 
an accessible manner and be prepared to give correct answers 
to questions.  If one is not well prepared, the results will be 
disappointing or in the extreme case, will create 
psychological complexities and neurosis among the youth.

WINDOW:  What is the current status of the CPF?

FR. ABEL:  There has not been an official announcement 
yet, but there exists some degree of uncertainty.  The CPF 
has its own staff.  His Holiness is concerned with the new 
operational systems which have emerged vis a vis the new 
socio-political currents.  New systems are needed to be 
created, new communities and parishes must be formed.  So 
now, he is placing more emphasis on pastoral work and 
operations.  While, His Holiness understanding the 
importance of the CPF, nevertheless, he gives greater 
importance to the parishes and dioceses.  As a result our staff 
is sent to different areas to carry out pastoral duties rather 
than do the work of the Center.  Obviously, when the staff is 
disbanded, then the department will be weakened.  Our 
request is that the importance of Christian evangelization and 
the mission of this department be considered in light of the 
new developments in Armenia.  We ask that help and all 
assistance be rendered, so that the Center may work for the 
glory and building of our Church and our people on a large 
scale.


OTHER RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS IN ARMENIA

As you know, their is a religious awakening in Armenia.  I 
did not expand on this idea earlier. This awakening is still an 
abstract idea. It has different colors as well.  The cults are 
also part of this awakening.  Also the Armenian pagan 
movement is a part of this awakening.  But, we understand 
the religious awakening as the spiritual rebirth of the 
oppressed majority, which is tied with our Church, our nation 
and culture.  It is founded on the faith of our Church and St. 
Gregory the Illuminator.
	
Of course, the cults and their movements present serious 
problems and distress.  They have used different methods to 
propagate their work.  Unfortunately, because our Church, or 
more precisely our clergy, at this historic juncture are not 
well prepared, they stand before an unexpected reality.  Our 
difficulties arise from this situation.  Therefore, it is my 
humble opinion that, while we need clergy in the parishes 
and dioceses,  we need to expand our specific efforts at least 
in Yerevan and in Etchmiadzin. In other words have a group 
of priests (Vartabeds) who are educated, familiar with 
administration and who have familiarity with the  needs, 
come together, develop a program, and plan a working 
process.

I do not wish to lower the Catholic and Protestant churches 
to the levels of the cults, but they are organizing their efforts 
at their pace--  specifically, the four denominations of 
Protestants, the Hare Krishnas, and the Maharishi's 
Transcendental Meditation.  But the serious problem comes 
from the Pentecostals.  The other cults and pagans are careful 
not to tangle with the Church.  They want to find solid 
ground first, and perhaps later they will go against the 
Church.  But the Pentecostals are directly opposing the 
Church.  They take parts of the Old Testament selectively 
and preach that salvation is only based on the Bible, not the 
Church. They oppose the "madagh."  They oppose the 
Church traditions, lighting candles, etc.
	
In Yerevan, their gathering place is on a hill, near the Paros 
restaurant.  You would think that Christ's Sermon on the 
Mount was taking place.  On television, once a reporter 
asked what is the Pentecostal's position in regard to the 
traditional Church.  Their representative replied that they 
were based on the Holy Bible and that the Church is not what 
is made of stone, but is all those you see assembled on the 
hill.  And in fact, they do have hundreds of people who 
gather for their meetings.  This should distress us seriously.
	
My conclusion regarding all this is that there is a religious 
awakening and if our clergy, our hierarchy do not organize in 
a corresponding fashion and a concerted display of energy is 
not shown, then we will not be able to lead our people.  I do 
not want to make false prophecies, but the danger is that a 
different church will be formed outside of the Mother 
Church, driven by inner motivations.  Perhaps, at one point, 
these cults will receive a different role and we will have an 
"Armenian" church along side the traditional Armenian 
Church.  This is what the current situation is showing, if we 
are not able to properly understand and deal with this 
religious awakening. My belief is that an investigation and 
analysis of this awakening should be the responsibility of 
certain individuals at CPF who have expertise in this regard.  
This should be their sole concern.  This is a serious matter.  
Specifically, they should look at the causes and the effects of 
the awakening, and suggest what has to be done.


WINDOW  AS A PROTOTYPE

	
Along with this, I have to express my happiness to you, and 
the happiness of our priests and Brotherhood, regarding the 
Window, view of the Armenian Church. We call it 
"Loosamoud" in Armenia.  If we say Loosamoud in 
Etchmiadzin, we all know we are talking about the Window  
publication.  The issue in which you dealt with the Cults in 
Armenia [vol. II No. 1] is very important.  We read it and 
hope that it would be printed in Armenian also.  I already 
presented to you an official request from Armenia.  Of 
course we will be willing to help you with the translation 
efforts.    Even if it takes some time, it is important for that 
issue of Window to be published in Armenian.  The 
publication of Window should be saluted by all clergy. 
Considering the situation in Armenia, in addition to your 
English version, an Armenian version should be published 
under your guidance, direction and editorship.  In Armenia, 
we certainly need a publication which has the caliber and 
professionalism of Window. Especially, the presentation of 
Fr. Vazken [at the Conference] on the considerable use of 
computers and telecommunications should be available to us 
in Armenia.

WINDOW: Bishop Hovnan Derderian has taken it upon 
himself to have that issue translated at the Canadian Diocese. 
We hope to type set it and do the final editorial work very 
shortly.


THE PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS IN ARMENIA

WINDOW: Can you give us some details about the 
Protestants in Armenia.
FR. ABEL:  Yes.  The four Protestant denominations that are 
organized in Armenia are the Baptists, the Pentecostals, the 
Seventh Day Adventists and the Evangelicals. These groups 
organized a program in an athletic stadium and  invited 
Armenian and American clergy from America to preach.  
They had gathered about 5,000 people in that stadium.  To 
see what was happening, I went there personally and 
attended this gathering.  I asked those attending: "Do you 
know why you've come here? Do you know who has 
organized this event?" They said, they thought it was the 
Church organizing this activity.  Whatever they hear in the 
name of Jesus, they think it is organized by the Church.  But 
the fact is that the organizers are others, not the Church.  
They passed out brochures and Bibles; they exchanged 
addresses; they established ties.  This is how they gain 
converts.

WINDOW:  When you went to this event, did the people 
know who you were or were you incognito?

FR. ABEL:  No. I made it clear who I was.  I even told them 
that this gathering was organized by different denominations 
and asked what they thought about the Armenian Church,  or 
the advancement of the Armenian culture or national 
aspirations.  Whoever I talked to or asked they weren't really 
in favor of the advancement of these Protestant groups.  
Some of these Protestant preachers were speaking against the 
honor given to the Holy Mother of God.  They spoke out 
against "madagh" and the custom of lighting candles, which 
is an expression of faith among our people. So many people 
were disturbed and uncomfortable.  In place of our Church 
hymns, they were playing many undignified musical 
selections.  Even the Lord's prayer and the Der Voghormia 
were sung in a screaming manner.  I myself felt a wave of 
uneasiness.


PREACHING METHODS

WINDOW: Let us turn our focus to the practical question of 
preaching.  You have a Center for Propagation of Faith, what 
is the message, what is the substance of preaching?

FR. ABEL: There are different levels of preaching.  In 
general, our goal is to make the people familiar with the 
Gospel-- what is the New Testament; what is the content of 
the New Testament; who is Jesus Christ; who is the Mother 
of God; what does Jesus say; what does the Sermon on the 
Mount say; who is John the Baptist; who is Matthew, who is 
Luke, the Synoptics; who is Paul the Apostle, the Letters, 
etc.--very basic facts that the people should know.   Until 
now, the people have not had an opportunity to know these 
things.   They have been deprived of this basic education. 
They are unfamiliar with the Bible.  For instance, in regard to 
the story of the Prodigal Son, we have to tell them to open 
the Gospel of Luke, where to find it, what Jesus is 
explaining, what is the kingdom of heaven, what is the 
coming of the kingdom.  We do this with public sermons, 
through television and by visiting the villages,  so that the 
general public can hear and be informed.
	
Evangelization is also geared toward educating the new 
generation.  We do this through our efforts in the schools. 
We have programs for the elementary schools, as well as, in 
the institutions of higher learning.  We have organized 
curriculums for theology, dogmatics, sacraments of the 
Church, etc.  Sometimes we present these subjects to the 
intellectuals by using their language.  Sometimes we explain 
these with very simple language for the general public, so 
that they may open their hearts to the light of the Gospel. We 
do this from the elders to the kindergartners. .

WINDOW:  Are your efforts localized in Yerevan, or do 
other Dioceses in Armenia avail themselves to your 
expertise?

FR. ABEL:  All written work that we do is shared.  For all the 
major feast and saint days we prepare special pamphlets--
Ephiphany, Easter, Pentecost, St. Gregory, etc. --and we 
place in these pamphlets  printed icons of the corresponding 
saints.  For instance, if it is prepared for the feast of St. 
Gregory of Narek, then there is a picture of him in the 
pamphlet.  Then we incorporate that with religious text (a 
prayer or hymn) from the works of the saint along with a 
biography.  We print between 30,000-40,000 copies of these.  
We give 5,000 to each diocese and to churches throughout 
Armenia, where they pass them out to the people during the 
services on those feast days.  On the feast of St. Gregory of 
Datev, it was very moving to see 13 and 14 year old 
youngsters, taking these pamphlets and reading them, 
standing under the walls of the church,   They could of 
course take that paper and throw it in the trash, but when 
they read it, then that is a major step toward progress for us. 
When they know what the feast
of Pentecost is, the feast of the Holy Spirit, then they will 
understand their faith better.


RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS WITHIN THE CHURCH

WINDOW:  Could you tell us about the movement in Khor 
Virab?

FR. ABEL: Yes.  A few years ago, Fr. Mkhitar, the priest at 
the Monastery of Khor Virab, was able to organize a church 
youth group in the Ardashad and Mirtzda areas.  The group is 
consists of educated young people, who are mostly university 
graduates.  To the best of our abilities, the CPF assisted this 
effort in every way, so that they could stand on their own 
feet.  Every Wednesday, we send someone from the CPF to 
Khor Virab to give a lecture or a presentation.  Sometimes, 
when we have visiting clergy from the diaspora, we make 
every effort to take them there to speak.  Now, this group has 
a religious-cultural newspaper called "Kavit."   They also 
published their first booklet, Barouyr Sevag's "Andib 
Namagani."  These enthusiastic young people produced the 
whole publication by themselves-- from typesetting to 
binding--through their own efforts and they sold it for a 
nominal amount to cover their costs.
	
Aside from Khor Virab, there are other small groups which 
have been organized throughout Armenia.  Of course, the 
CPF assists all of them.  The main purpose of the CPF is to 
make sure that the national, cultural and spiritual awakening 
takes place in the traditional and beautiful nest of our people.

WINDOW:  Are these grass roots movements?  Where do 
these feelings for the Church come from?

FR. ABEL:  These feelings emanate from the spiritual 
awakening in the country.  When there is a clergyman like Fr. 
Mkhitar, who takes the initiative and organizes, then he 
becomes the pastor and the leader.  It is already an organized 
group, operating under the umbrella of the Church. But, there 
are hundreds of similar groups, about which we do not have 
any information, but we know they exist.  Anyone can pick 
up a cross, hold a Bible and organize a group. There is a 
similar group in Hogtemberian, in Arshaloys and in Gosh. 
These groups stand up with false teachings and proclaim 
themselves as a Church.  Since the people have a thirst for 
this spirituality, they think it is the right way and they start to 
follow them. These groups should to be organized under the 
umbrella and auspices of our Church. When these groups 
become large and we loose control over their teaching, then 
they become another reality, about which we can not 
speculate yet.  As I said earlier, besides our Armenian 
Church, if this trend continues, there will be another 
Armenian Church which has no ties to the Mother Church.


THEOLOGICAL REFLECTION

WINDOW:  How relevant is religion to the day-to-day lives 
of the people?

FR. ABEL:  This is a separate question which needs study. 
But in a general way, this is an existential question.  When 
such a political and economic situation is created, as it is in 
Armenia today--when people are disappointed with the 
political and economic prophets and leadership--then they 
begin to put their only hope in the living and real God, who 
exists above all the standards of man and above the material 
realities of life.  God is not material, He is a spiritual, living 
energy, a reality, with whom our fathers have spoken in 
Armenian and have given the name "God," [Asdvadz].  This 
is the faith of our fathers.  They have put their only hope on 
that Reality who lives among our people, lives in our Church 
and leads our people and protects the existence of our 
people--despite all kinds of atrocities and dangerous 
situations.  Throughout our history, God has protected us, 
whether in disaster or in political and economic difficulties 
of Armenia.
	
For our people, the Church and religion is a question of 
liberation. It is liberation theology, however, not the way it is 
understood in Latin America.  In the case of the Armenian 
people it is not a class struggle .  It is rather a liberation 
created on politics and ideology.  It is the liberation from 
Marxism, Leninism and political materialism--from the 
oppressive and sore reality of man's soul and body.  It is also 
a liberation from what relates to our neighboring countries, 
Azerbaijan and to some degree Georgia.

WINDOW:  This pertains to the collective, how  about the 
individual?  In other words, does the individual regard 
himself as part of the collective experience or does he see 
religion as a way of personal salvation?

FR. ABEL: These are interrelated issues.  He is part of the 
collective and this understanding is a universal phenomena. 
On the other hand, for himself and his family, religion is a 
source of optimistic outlook on life.  If there is no faith in 
God, then all the strength and energy required to survive that 
material life has crumbled.  Therefore, there is another 
reality beyond this, that is faith or belief. With this faith man 
can be filled with hope, that he must be optimistic toward 
life, he must believe in the continuity of life and its eternity.  
This is also a source for man to be filled with love--love 
toward God--and that love is based on his love for his friends 
and others.  I am hopeful that with this practice, by extending 
a hand to one another, by helping one another--if not today, if 
not tomorrow, then in the near future--we will be able to 
overcome these difficult times and our people will be able to 
continue its peaceful and safe existence.

WINDOW: You've spoken about the youth, what about the 
middle aged generation.  In the past with the influence of 
Marxism and atheism, religion has been seen as the sign of 
the weak. We see this even in the recent immigrants from 
Armenia to the United States, that the Church is really a 
place for the weak.  Has there been a change through your 
efforts in this perspective?

FR. ABEL:  The situation in Armenia has changed in a truly 
amazing and unbelievable manner.  We do not see any real 
difficulties on an ideological ground. At least presently, they 
accept us with open arms, they give us the means and they 
allow dialogue to take place.  Where faith can be spoken and 
spread, it is there where Faith can be propagated .  They have 
to hear, they have to be convinced, they have to see the 
testimony of people--from the Gospel and from the Faith--so 
that they can believe.  This is one of the ways. This is not to 
say that the remnants of the past have been completely 
vanished.  Though there are still people who are influenced 
by the ideology of the past, nevertheless, we do not see a 
definite opposition to our work, but perhaps a certain 
reservation.  That reservation is natural.  That reservation, 
instead of indifference, can be turned to curiosity.  Thus, it is 
our work and responsibility to break the ice and fill it with 
warmth.  The fulfillment of this responsibility will depend on 
the ability of the Armenian clergy.  What was above our 
abilities in the past, we could not do, but now we can.  So 
then, we must do the work.  Of course, if this is the will of 
the Lord, and if the Armenian Church and clergy have the 
blessings of Jesus' Cross, then the mission of the Armenian 
Church and the work of the Armenian clergy will 
undoubtedly be crowned with success. We can do nothing if 
we are guided with human capabilities, with human mind 
and muscle.  God gives us the blessing through faith, and it is 
up to us to use our human capabilities for the service of our 
Church and the propagation of the Gospel.

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