Window Quarterly Vol. 2, No. 3, 1991 Copyright 1991 [Permission is granted to use, print, reproduce this article provided the following acknowledgment is given: From Window Quarterly 2, 3 (1991); ACRAG c. 1991. *** CHURCH AND STATE IN ARMENIA An Exclusive interview with Ludwig Khachadrian Minister of Religious Affairs of the Republic of Armenia Interviewed and translated by Hratch Tchilingirian Q. Mr. Khachadrian, could you briefly tell us what are the responsibilities of the Ministry of Religious Affairs? Khachadrian: Officially speaking, I am the president of a subcommittee which deals with Religious Affairs for the Parliament of the Republic of Armenia. Basically, we are the liaison between the government and the churches and/or religious groups or organizations and our primary role is to establish contacts and cooperation between these groups. Our relationship with churches and religious groups is based on law, legal principles and mutual respect. Q. How does your Ministry differ from the Ministry of the communist regime? Khachadrian: The previous Ministry of Religious Affairs was a sort of KGB arm to suppress religion and the Church in Armenia. It was a part of the Moscow apparatus, assigned specifically to watch the church and her operations. In fact, Moscow exerted its influence on the Church through this ministry. Obviously, today that has changed completely. We have asked the KGB in Armenia to pull out all personnel who were assigned to the Ministry. Which they did. We have completely cleared the Ministry of suppressive and ill- intentioned activities. Q. What is the position of the Government concerning the Armenian Church? Khachadrian: From a legal point of view, there is no difference between the Armenian Church and other churches or religious groups, because the legal system that we have adopted assumes that everybody is free to choose his/her religion or faith and is free to practice his/her religion. However, besides legality, the case of the Armenian Church has a moral and psychological dimension, especially in view of the fact that the majority of Armenians in Armenia-even if they were raised as atheists-they consider themselves children of the Armenian Apostolic Church. Thus naturally, we, as individuals, feel as children of the Armenian Church. However, I would like to emphasize once again, that from a legal point of view, the Armenian Apostolic Church is equal with all other religious communities or groups. On the other hand, considering the persecution of the Armenian Church by the Communists during the past 70 years, we have created special opportunities for the Armenian Apostolic Church and have given certain privileges, so that the Church may recover what she lost during these past 70 years and carry on her normal life. But let me clarify this further, because it is an important issue. The Armenian Church is the father of the Armenian people. This father was imprisoned and stripped of his children for seventy years. Now that the father is free, others have come to adopt his orphaned children. What we need to do is give the father a chance to reclaim his children. Some of the children would want to go to other homes and some would return to their father's home. It's up to the children. But, it is only fair to give the father a chance to embrace his children, after wrongful imprisonment and persecution. I have explained this to various denominations and religious groups who have come to Armenia. All we are saying is give the father, the Armenian Church, a chance. Q. You said that you would like to see the Armenian Church recover her losses. Could you further explain that? Khachadrian: First, one of the greatest and most tragic losses of the Armenian Church is her clergy , who were brutally persecuted during the communist regime (which explains today's shortage). Also, the limitations and reduction of the size of the Seminary in Armenia was another punishment. Secondly, the idea and reality of the parish was completely wiped out. I believe, the strength of the Church is her parishes and the life of the parishioners. Now we are trying to reestablish the parishes-to recreate the sense of community, mutual responsibility and shared faith-as such, we are giving practically all the old churches to Etchmiadzin to make them functional churches for the faithful. There are requests to build new churches in various regions of Armenia and we are positively responding to these requests, by giving them the land, building material, etc. Here, I should mention that we have also returned the churches that belonged to the Catholics, for instance in the village of Panik and the Orthodox Church in Yerevan. The law is law. Q. You said earlier that you have given the Armenian Apostolic Church certain privileges, what are some of these privileges and what is the legal status of the Armenian Church? Khachadrian: First, let me say that the Armenian Apostolic Church is the only recognized Church in Armenia, the other Christian churches are recognized as communities. Legally speaking, the Armenian Church is the only religious entity that is registered as a church, the other churches, like the Catholics or Protestant, are registered or are recognized as religious communities, e.g. these would be registered as the Community of the Catholic Church in such and such place or village. Secondly, the various denominations are permitted to preach among their community members and in their house of worship only. The Armenian Apostolic Church is permitted to preach all over Armenia. Thirdly, proselytizing (hunt for souls) is forbidden by law. Fourthly, permission has been granted only to the Armenian Apostolic Church to teach in the public schools, of course if the parents and the school authorities consider it important to offer religious education. Fifth, all organizations (whether religious or political) whose headquarters are outside the boundaries of the Republic of Armenia are not permitted to receive financial support from their organizations. For example, the headquarters of the Russian Orthodox Church in Armenia is outside the boundaries of our Republic, therefore they cannot receive financial support from Moscow and build churches in Armenia. They may only receive contributions from outside for charitable work. Q. What is the purpose of your visit to the United States? Khachadrian: First, I wanted to acquaint myself with the religious life of Armenians in America, particularly the Armenian Church and church circles. Obviously, this was not purely for curiosity purposes, but rather, it was prompted by the new relationship and understanding between Armenia and Diaspora. As you know, about a year ago, a new government and authority took power in Armenia by popular demand and majority vote. Therefore, a new outlook has emerged from these new developments, in a way a reevaluation of old established political, ideological perceptions. Naturally, issues related to religious and moral norms, issues pertaining to church and state are also being reevaluated. The government is particularly reassessing, without hesitation, the unfair treatment of the church by the Communist authorities during the past 70 years. A healthier atmosphere should be created, so that the Church may recover its losses and continue to tend to the religious needs of the Armenian nation. New principles have been adopted for church and state relations. For example, the government is not interfering with the internal affairs of the Church. We believe that there should be an atmosphere of understand and mutual respect on both sides. A few months ago, the Supreme Council of the Parliament approved a new law concerning freedom of conscious and religious organization. This was the first time that such a law was adopted in Armenia. Q. Can you further explain the process of this law? Khachadrian: This law is based on the idea of religious pluralism. It declared separation of Church and State, non- interference of the State in the affairs of the Church, protection of the rights for freedom of conscious, freedom to choose any belief or creed. It basically embraces values that are universally accepted and Armenia, having chosen the democratic system, adopted them also. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, special regard has been given to the Armenian Apostolic Church only, (this does not please other religious groups or denominations) so that she may recover her losses in the near future, and especially the artificial separation that was created between the people and the church may be lifted. An opportunity should be given to the people to rediscover the church and vice versa. These are some of the things that have been stipulated by the special status given to the Armenian Apostolic Church. Obviously, the Church-having been the focal point of dispersed Armenians throughout the world-represents an international body as such. In this respect, the Church-as it has been the case in history-can contribute to the realization of our national agenda and preservation of our identity in the diaspora. Naturally-considering the position of the Armenian Church in the diaspora, its experience, and international status-the Republic of Armenia has certain expectations and hopes. The cooperation and expectation of the authorities in Armenia is necessitated by the urgent needs of our country- these are very critical issues that we are facing today in Armenia. These are some of the considerations that define the purpose of our visit to the United States. Q. What about the cults and the new religious movements that are operating in Armenia? Khachadrian: I believe the understanding or information of the diaspora concerning the cults in Armenia is somewhat inflated or exaggerated. Perhaps, it is a matter of misinformation. It seems that there is a wide spread opinion here in the diaspora that these cults have gone out of control and a critical situation has been created by these cults. I am not in complete agreement with this opinion or observation. It is misleading. Obviously, there are new religious movements operating in Armenia and at times it seem that they were purposely organized to cause raptures in Armenian society. The danger is there. Our concern is not so much about their particular creed or belief, but over the long term effects of religious schisms which would last for very long times-even when political ideologies fade away. Religious raptures sometimes last for centuries. I should note here, that the intensity of the post-earthquake activities of these groups is exhausting. Many religious groups tried illegally to organize themselves and find sympathizers. Right now this has slowed down. But there are still groups and churches who are continuing to attract the youth into their ranks. According to the law, a religious organization should have at least 50 members (citizens of Armenia) for registration. They are trying to gather these 50 people. In several cases, we discovered false signatures in their formal application. They were trying to register their relatives without their consent or knowledge. Such things are going to happen. But we are trying to apply the law in these instances and put an end to these illegal practices. Q. Why are young people an easy target? Khachadrian: You have to remember that for several generations, including myself, the Armenian youth received a very strict atheistic education in Armenia. We were never taught about the church or Christianity. The people in Armenia do not know the differences between the churches or denominations. Because, the youth are so hungry for religious nourishment, when someone speaks in the name of Christ, they believe him. They think that as long as they are talking about Christ they must be a legitimate group. But many of them, when we explain to them or show them that there are differences between various churches and beliefs, they are returning to the Mother Church very easily. Therefore, our job is to provide accurate information and material about the different religious movements. Many among the youth are lured into these cults by false promises. They promise the youth free trips or education abroad or sometimes material well being. Imagine, for a young person-who during the communist regime did not have these opportunities-that could be very appealing. These are some of the dangerous tactics that are being used by these groups and cults. However, I am optimistic for the future. I believe the best way of overcoming these currents is the strengthening of the Armenian Apostolic Church. That is the best weapon. Otherwise, as we all know, no matter how much you restrict their activities or institute laws, we will not be able to control these religious groups. We hope that the Armenian Apostolic Church will reorganize itself and coordinate its activities. I believe that when the Church reaches out to people who are hungry for the word of God, then people will respond and will not look for other directions . Q. In your opinion, what are some of the major issues in the Armenian Church today? Khachadrian: To me personally and for our Government, the separation of the Armenian Church is a major concern. We believe that the effectiveness of the cooperation between the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Government of Armenia- in terms of international and domestic affairs-was burdened or at times disturbed by the fact that the Church was separated. The authorities in Armenia are very concerned about this separation. In part my visit to America is a reflection of that concern. I have personally been involved with these issues in the past few month. I have had conversations with both Catholicoi Vazken I and Karekin II, in search of a process by which the problems may be remedied. Our efforts are progressing very slowly and with great difficulty. And it seems that we have to accept this for the time being, since presently things are not moving as expeditiously as we would like to see them. In a larger context, our interest in this issue is in terms of how much does the separation effect the solution of Armenian national and state issues. The Armenian Church in the Diaspora, vis-a-vis the clergy, is the unofficial representative of the Republic of Armenia, since we have not yet received the official recognition of other countries. To say the least, we see certain things that need to be corrected in the present situation of the Church. In our opinion, the reasons for the separation of the church were political and presently, these political dynamics are being used for purposes other than the church. Now that political and ideological freedom has been established in Armenia-for all political parties to carry out their agenda-there is no need anymore to burden the church with politics. As such, we see the continued separation of the church-besides the moral aspect of it-as very unproductive and unpractical. In a situation like this, both the ecclesiastical and political strength of the church is diminished. Therefore, from the perspective of the government, it is desirable and acceptable to "transport" the political struggles from the Diaspora to Armenia, where issues of political legitimacy are discussed and where the political parties could challenge the existing powers, based on universally accepted political processes. We believe that the Diaspora should primarily engage itself in solving and formulating an overall national strategy, rather than weakening itself with internal politics. The church should be depoliticized as much as possible. And if the church is going to get involved in politics, that should only be in national issues and not party politics or state politics. Q. What is the solution? Khachadrian: In order to solve this problem, first of all we need to remove the political reasons that lead to the separation of the church. In this respect, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation [Dashnag Party] has a major role to play (now that they have their units in Armenia and are actively participating in the political process in the homeland). We thought-that as a result of the new political freedom in Armenia-the Armenian political parties in the Diaspora (all of them) would bring their "fight" to Armenia and resolve their differences in the political process of our homeland. Unfortunately, this has not happened. On the contrary, when the Armenian political parties came to Armenia, they brought with them their diaspora feuds and instead of solving them they continued to distance themselves from each other. This is not healthy at all. Q. What is the situation presently? Khachadrian: One thing is clear: all the parties agree that the separation of the church is not beneficial to anyone. And we have started a very slow, time consuming and difficult process. Some negotiations are going on-both on political and ecclesial levels- and non-controversial issues are being solved, for example, the issue of the Diocese of Greece and Damascus, etc. But again, these are progressing very slowly. Nevertheless, I am very hopeful that in time these attempts will give their fruit. *** =================================================== _ _ _ _ _ |_| ___ _| | ___ _ _ _ | | | | | | _ / _ \ / _ | / _ \ | | | | | | | |_| |_| || |_ | | | || |_| || |_| || |_| |_| | \_________/\___||_| |_| \___/ \___/ \_________/ View Of The Armenian Church ===================================================